. >> are you talking about obama? >> i'm talking about what you say. >> i know, i know. >> but you do -- i must be fair and say that you go on in that same chapter of one of these books to say isn't it time we forget trying to pressure obama to do the right thing? >> obama to me is symptomatic to me of the liberal center. but the issue is much greater than him. i mean, the issue is in a system that is entirely broken. it's broken. elections are bought by big money. the political process is not in the hands of the people. it's in the hands of very few people. and it seems to me we have to ask ourselves what kind of formative culture needs to be put in place in which education becomes central to politics, in which politics can be used to help people to be able to see things differently, to get beyond this system that is so closed, so powerfully normalized. i mean, the right since the 1970s has created a massive cultural apparatus, a slew of anti-public intellectuals. they've invaded the universities with think tanks. th